Mark is a writer, an editor, a professional speaker, and a book nerd with a passion for craft beer.
He’s also an ambassador for the Canadian publishing industry and my mentor.
Prefer video? Watch this interview on YOUTUBE. It’s worth your while… I include a clip where I failed to hit record on our 1st attempt at this interview. My expression and shock might be priceless.
I met Mark Leslie several years ago when we took the same short story webinar. When he found out about my short story blog, he invited me onto his podcast.
Here is my first chat ever with Mr. Leslie:
Since then, we’ve become fast friends, and I bump into him all over the continent at writing conferences.
All sorts of goodies in this podcast…
You can learn more about Mark over at markleslie.ca
Angelique: You’ve said failure is just a data point and writers shouldn’t be afraid of it. What do you mean by that in publishing?
Mark: I’ve been in this industry for a long time, and I’ve failed thousands of times. I’ve screwed up, done the wrong thing, and made mistakes constantly. But if it weren’t for those mistakes, I wouldn’t have learned. Sometimes, if something works accidentally, you think you knew what you were doing, and that can actually teach you the wrong lesson.
Failure gives you information. It shows you what didn’t work, and that helps you adjust.
Angelique: A lot of writers look for the magic formula. Is there one?
Mark: No. There’s no magic bullet. There are good strategies, yes, but every single book is different, even for the same author. Every platform is different. Every reader is different. You can’t just copy what someone else did and expect the same result. You have to learn and adjust it according to what you’re writing, who you’re serving, and how you’re releasing it. A hundred authors can do all the so-called right things, and only a tiny percentage may still hit that perfect timing where everything aligns.
Angelique: So writers shouldn’t just chase whatever seems to be working for everyone else?
Mark: Exactly. Too many indie authors act like a bunch of ten-year-olds playing soccer, all chasing the ball around.
They’re following the latest trend without thinking strategically. You have to think more like Wayne Gretzky, skating to where the puck is going to be.
You have to figure out where your puck is, and your puck is going to be different from someone else’s. Most of the time it still won’t work, but every once in a while you’ll get a hit. That’s part of the game.
Angelique: Is publishing really that unstable, even when something works?
Mark: Absolutely. You can have a good year and still be broke the next year. There’s no guarantee in writing. You have to be able to pivot. I put out maybe three books a year on average, and they don’t all make money. Some books are successful, some do okay, and some are complete duds. So I’m playing the odds. I’m not waiting ten years and hoping one book becomes a blockbuster. I’m producing the books that are meaningful to me and releasing them with passion.
Angelique: How important is talent compared to persistence?
Mark: Talent matters, but it’s only one part of the equation. Persistence is huge. The writers who don’t quit are the ones who win. You’re going to get bad reviews, rejection, disappointing sales, and things that make you want to stop. But if you quit, that’s the end. You have to keep going.
Angelique: How should writers handle negative reviews and readers who don’t connect with the work?
Mark: You have to remember that not every reader is your reader. My mother never liked my writing because she was a romance reader and I didn’t write romance. That didn’t mean my books were bad. It just meant she wasn’t the ideal reader for me. The same is true with reviews. Some people are simply not the right audience. That’s okay. What matters is finding the people who do love what you write.
Angelique: Why does having a body of work matter so much in publishing?
Mark: Because one book rarely gives you enough leverage. When you spend money marketing one book, the math is tough. Maybe people click, maybe a few buy, but the return can be small. When you have more books, even if they’re not all in the same series, a reader who likes one can go looking for the others. That’s where the value of a backlist comes in. If someone discovers you and enjoys your writing, they may go buy more of your books. That’s one of the best reasons to keep building a body of work.
Angelique: Does the backlist only matter if you write in series?
Mark: Series make it easier, but no, it’s not only about series. If a reader connects with your voice or your storytelling, they may want more from you regardless. I’ve done that myself as a reader. I’ve read one book by an author and immediately gone out and bought everything else they wrote. That’s the power of a body of work.
Angelique: For writers with anthologies or story collections, should they spend a lot on marketing them?
Mark: Usually short story collections and anthologies are a harder sell unless you’re a very big name. They can still be valuable, though, because they may be how readers discover you. Someone reads one of your stories in an anthology or a magazine, likes your work, and then goes looking for more. So they can be part of the ecosystem, even if they aren’t your biggest money-makers on their own.
Angelique: Your collection One Hand Screaming did unusually well for a short story collection. Why?
Mark: Part of it was Kickstarter, but part of it was also that I invested in traditional distribution. I put it into warehouse distribution, had sales reps going out to bookstores, and I also did a lot of in-person promotion myself. I went to bookstores, met people, signed books, and did events. So it wasn’t just one thing. It was a combination of distribution, visibility, and effort.
Angelique: What’s the advantage of traditional publishing for a project like your upcoming Great Lakes book?
Mark: One major advantage is access. Because the book is through a traditional publisher, I don’t have to negotiate directly with bookstores. I can just tell them the book is coming out through a recognized publisher and that they can order it through normal channels. That makes events and bookstore outreach much easier. Sometimes, traditional publishing is the right fit for a certain kind of book because of the infrastructure it gives you.
Angelique: So part of the publishing strategy is matching the project to the right path?
Mark: Exactly. Some books fit indie better, some fit traditional better, and some fit hybrid approaches. You have to look at the project, the audience, the distribution needs, and what you want the book to do.
Angelique: Writers are always told to focus, but you’ve also talked about trying multiple things. How do those ideas fit together?
Mark: Focus matters, but that doesn’t mean you can’t try numerous things. I go back to Kevin J. Anderson’s popcorn theory of success. You throw a bunch of kernels in and see what pops. You can’t always test one tiny thing at a time. Sometimes you need to try several things and see what actually works. The key is not being random. You’re experimenting, learning, and watching for patterns.
Angelique: You’ve recently started selling more short fiction again. What did that teach you?
Mark: It reminded me that short fiction can be incredibly valuable. I sold a 5,000-word short story for $500. I have books that don’t earn $500 in a year. When you compare the time investment, that’s significant. A novel might take 80,000 words and months of work. A short story might take a few focused hours to draft and revise. That really changed the way I looked at the opportunity.
Angelique: That’s a surprising comparison for a lot of writers. Are short stories underrated as an income stream?
Mark: In many cases, yes. The average indie author book isn’t even going to make a hundred dollars in a year. So when a short story brings in five times that, you pay attention. That doesn’t mean everyone should stop writing novels. It means short fiction can be a smart part of the mix. It can generate income, build your name, and help you explore ideas quickly.
Angelique: How are you deciding where to submit short fiction now?
Mark: I’ve gotten into the habit of reading through market reports and seeing whether the concept inspires me. If I’m inspired, I write something for it. That’s what matters for me. I’m not just blindly chasing every market. I’m looking for opportunities that spark an idea and fit what I do.
Angelique: So writers should pay attention not just to open calls, but to where their imagination lights up?
Mark: Exactly. A market report is not just a list of places to submit. It can also be a creative trigger. If the concept grabs you, that may be a sign there’s something there worth writing.
My list for this March!
Angelique: Can short stories also help writers understand what resonates with readers?
Mark: Absolutely. Short fiction lets you test ideas, characters, and worlds. If readers respond strongly, or editors keep saying they love the concept even when they pass on it, that tells you something. It means there may be a bigger opportunity there. Short stories can help you identify what has energy and what readers are connecting with.
Angelique: So in that sense, short fiction can function like market research for your larger career?
Mark: Yes. It can show you where there’s traction. It’s a way to discover what keeps getting a response, what people remember, and what may deserve expansion into something larger.
Angelique: What would you say to writers who want their writing life to work as a business, not just as creative expression?
Mark: There’s nothing wrong with wanting to make money from your writing. But if you want it to work as a business, you need to think strategically. You need to build a body of work, stay persistent, pay attention to what’s working, and be willing to pivot. You also have to understand that there are no guarantees. Publishing is a long game, and success usually comes from sustained effort over time, not one magical breakthrough.
Angelique: What’s one of the most important mindset shifts writers need?
Mark: Stop looking for certainty. This business doesn’t offer certainty. What it offers is the chance to keep learning, keep producing, and improve your odds over time. The writers who last are the ones who keep showing up, keep experimenting, and keep building.
Speaking of short stories… Here is a great podcast episode with Matty Dalrymple and Mark that I joined. (Originally aired on Mark’s Stark Reflections podcast, and he kindly allowed me to re-post it.)
